Posts by Jack Burton

38

I took the '1914 Generation' prophecy seriously, did you? Do you even remember it?!

by nicolaou in

i was born in 1964, 50 years after 1914. even in my teens i was doing the sums.

i had a worse case scenario figured out - if the 1914 generation could apply to babies and even if they lived to be a 120, i would still only be about 70 years old after they'd all died!

i figured i was part of the first wave of 'jehovah's people' that really would live to see the new order - guaranteed!!

Jack Burton

This was the teaching that finally forced me to look at all my beliefs critically. I had a basic understanding of how to arrive at that date in history, but never went any deeper. It took a history show about the ancient middle east, that I first heard the date of 587 B.C. It stuck in my head for a couple of days. I then decided to research the actual date for Jerusalems destruction.

Surprise surprise, no matter where I looked, only the WT uses 607.

I remember when I first tried to explain this to my wife, she didn't see the big deal. I remember thinking, how can anyone in their right mind not see what was sooooo obvious to me. Without that starting date, the whole 1914 doctrine falls apart.

She did eventually come around after I was DFed for apostacy, now we both laugh at how ridiculous we were back then. My wife has said now that if the WTs is God's organization, God is one sick puppy!!!

34

Spiritual education of my son....

by Albert Einstein in

jw
friends

7 years my son was spiritualy educated as a future jw... my wife still is a faithful witness, so i cannot tell him straight "wtbs is a bunch of liars and hypocrites ...." he would be confused and would go to mom to ask if its right.... so i started explaining him indirectly, leting him to got to the conclusion himself.

we have several topics.

my favourit one is:.

Jack Burton

Albert-

Thanks for the kind words.

Sad Michael-

One other thing to keep in mind, be open to everything.

When I was DFed I assumed that there can't be a God. My thinking process had morphed "God" into "Jehovah", as taught by the WTs.

I've actually started to make peace with God and the Bible from reading Ramakrishna, a Hindu saint. God can be big enough for all of us, no matter what form that takes. I guess my point is that there is an entire world out there for my children, and it would be extremly selfish of me to think they need to believe as I do. If they are happy, so am I.

34

Spiritual education of my son....

by Albert Einstein in

jw
friends

7 years my son was spiritualy educated as a future jw... my wife still is a faithful witness, so i cannot tell him straight "wtbs is a bunch of liars and hypocrites ...." he would be confused and would go to mom to ask if its right.... so i started explaining him indirectly, leting him to got to the conclusion himself.

we have several topics.

my favourit one is:.

Jack Burton

Albert-

The road ahead is going to be difficult, but if you stick with it, it is so worth it.

I have gotten my wife and my children out of the WTs, even though two are under 5, by planting seeds and letting them come to their own conclusions. It's a great feeling to talk openly to my 13 year old son. Even children can grasp that we don't need all the answers, as long as we keep asking questions.

Keep it up!

Sad Michael-

I was raised as a JW, and I tried to be an exemplary witness, pioneering, appointed an MS, even though not everything made sense, I figured I just didn't understand enough. Sounds pretty common right, "where else can we go, we have the Truth?"

In my opinion, this is one of the most dangerous ways to raise a child. If I would have known what this kind of closed minded ignorance of the real world, or reality in general had in store for me, I would have run away from home as soon as my Mom became a witness. The view of the WTs can SERIOUSLY affect some basic thinking processes. There is too much suspension of reality, and forcing everyone to accept as unquestionable truth, what can be changed and discarded, can really fuck with your head.

If you grow up trusting that the WTs has the answers, when I now wonder if even the GB believes everything they teach, takes away the abillity to think rationally about the world around you. I want my children to see things from all sides and then make up their minds. I want them to trust themselves, not hope they are right.

I hope you don't take this as a personal attack. I may come off as a bit of a jerk about this issue, I'm still trying to forgive my Mom for joining the WT and cutting my rational legs out from under me.

16

Restoring the "life pattern", where is THAT in the Bible?

by VM44 in

when the watchtower tries to explain the resurrection it says that the individual's "life pattern" is placed in a re-created body.. ok, what i want to know is where does this concept come from?.

where in the bible does "life pattern" appear?.

for that matter, has the watchtower even defined what a person's "life pattern" is?.

Jack Burton

I think "life pattern" sounds suspiciously like a "soul" to me.

73

The "swagger" of the Organization is gone - or is it my imagination?

by BonaFide in

jw
friends

i am in my early forties.

grew up in the truth.

i remember talks at the assemblies by the governing body in the 80's.

Jack Burton

Being out for a few years now and going to the memorial for the first time this year, I noticed how drab and dull the whole thing was.

I get the feeling that most witnesses are trying very hard to convince themselves that this is still the "Truth".

I also have noticed alot of witnesses "hedging their bets", meaning the meetings, field service,etc., has all become drudgery.I have heard this comment from a number of witnesses, even members of my family - "Jehovah knows my heart condition, and besides, it's all about my personal relationship with Jehovah, right?"

The fact that I've been able to talk about this with "active witnesses", even though it is common knowledge that I'm DFed, and make no apologies for it, says something to me also.

It seems that more and more witnesses have, in the words of the greatest movie ever Thye Live, "Put the glasses on! Put them on!", and are begining to realize-"Brother, lifes a bitch and she's back in heat!"

189

so they never claimed to be an inspired prophet?

by ninja in

*** si p. 9 all scripture is inspired of god and beneficial ***.

line of communication.

16 someone may ask, what has been the means of communication?

Jack Burton

The thing that amazes me, now that I'm out, is I can't even fathom thinking like that anymore.

I would have used the same arguments while I was a pioneer. It really shows to me that no amount of reasoning will convince someone whose mind is not their own.

This is a very insidious cult, but must of us know this already!

38

..Your Worst Injury...

by OUTLAW in

jw
friends

most of you know,i live in the wilderness..i am my own doctor..i smashed my knee-cap,and it frigg`n hurts..it will heal,but i will suffer till it does.........what was your worst injury and how did you get through it?.............for me it`s rum and pain killers right now..not too much of either,or i won`t be able to survive in the wilderness.............................................outlaw.

Jack Burton

I got kicked in the head by a goat when I was two.(Don't ask what I was doing)

32 stitches, a permanant scar on my forehead, and a lifetime of jokes...good times, good times

189

so they never claimed to be an inspired prophet?

by ninja in

*** si p. 9 all scripture is inspired of god and beneficial ***.

line of communication.

16 someone may ask, what has been the means of communication?

Jack Burton

This has been one of the best ongoing topics on this board for me.

This may be a little bit off topic, but I am amazed that someone like Reniaa can see the MOUNTAINS of evidence, and yet think the WTs is still in the right! I get the sense that she is trying desperatly to prove these things to herself.

Is this how all WT apologists act? Does it mean anything to them that they have to dance around issues, laugh off legitimate questions, and then go away when the same old arguments have been knocked down time and again? The sad thing is, Reniaa will feel that she "won" this debate.

My mother and sister are like this. The arrogant attitude they have, even if they are just Wts parrots makes me want to barf.

Anyways, thanks for the insights that have been put up here. I've learned alot!

189

so they never claimed to be an inspired prophet?

by ninja in

*** si p. 9 all scripture is inspired of god and beneficial ***.

line of communication.

16 someone may ask, what has been the means of communication?

Jack Burton

noun, plural -cies.

1.	the foretelling or prediction of what is to come.

2.	something that is declared by a prophet, esp. a divinely inspired prediction, instruction, or exhortation.

3.	a divinely inspired utterance or revelation: oracular prophecies.

4.	the action, function, or faculty of a prophet

I found this definition of prophecy online. There isn't much wiggle room here.

Sounds like setting dates would fit the definition of predicting what is to come.

Following the logic, if someone who claims some special insight into the Bible, claims something specific will happen on a certain date, and it doesn't happen, that person would be a false prophet.

Reniaa, tell me where my logic is off, what am I missing here?

(I can't believe I've gotten hooked into one of these discussions, and I only started posting a couple of weeks ago!)

189

so they never claimed to be an inspired prophet?

by ninja in

*** si p. 9 all scripture is inspired of god and beneficial ***.

line of communication.

16 someone may ask, what has been the means of communication?

Jack Burton

Reniaa-

I almost don't know how to respond to you. How can you say that setting dates for future events is not prophecying? Being so certain about things, as the society is, implies that they have a special channel to God? Isn't that the same as being inspired?

Also, how can you call what the WTS does "refinement"?

Does it bother you that they are only "refined" AFTER they are backed into a corner?

It also seems to me that if the WTs is not inspired, the teachings can't be called The Truth. If you want to follow their teachings, go ahead, but not being inspired makes them opinions. How then, can you criticize other views in "christendom" if what you are following are opinions?

One other thing, JWs hide behind the "imperfection" thing. You can't have it both ways. I get really annoyed with people who use that argument, and then go on to claim that these "imperfect" men are the only ones in the world who know the Truth! How does this imperfect organization get it's information? If the GB is not inspired, anything they teach should be questioned right? Go to one of the local elders with this question like I did.

Let me know how that goes for you.